It's so sad to me. Alex is the person who convinced me of veganism. I occasionally still rewatch his videos about it, especially "a meat eater's case for veganism" and the speech in tel Aviv. It's bewildering how someone making such forceful eloquent arguments for veganism can abandon it only a couple years later.
I absolutely feel you. Human psychology works in strange ways — cognitive dissonance, social pressures, confirmation bias — they can all play a role, even for people who once seemed deeply committed. Sadly, a lot of ex-vegans start making arguments that fall far below the intellectual and ethical standards they previously championed.
As disheartening as it is, I think it also serves as a reminder: the movement needs all of us. It’s up to those who still see the importance and urgency of this cause to keep speaking up, keep sharing, and keep raising awareness. That’s how change continues. 💚
This is a very strong laying out of all the logical fallacies happening in nonvegan appeals to futility. There are indeed many valid counterpoints to the futility argument, and it's important to educate people on them. And I really appreciate you approaching it through the lens of CosmicSkeptic's unfortunate change of tune.
I'm experimenting with a slightly different read on this argument in my outreach conversations. When someone presents an appeal to futility, what's glaringly apparent is the unspoken subtext of the statement.
What they say: "My going vegan won't make a difference."
What they mean: "...so there's no reason for me to do this thing that I already don't want to do."
Appeals to futility are an indirect but unmistakable admission that the person finds the prospect of becoming vegan unappealing - too unappealing to do without having some tangible personal benefit (in this case, visibly improving society, which is inherently dishonest since we don't hold other aspects of our morality to this standard, but I digress).
So getting hit with this argument presents an opportunity to really get to the honest core of an individual's resistance to veganism and press on what those personal hangups are that make the idea of becoming vegan unappealing to them. This is how I usually respond, and if they engage in that line of conversation, then you really have the opportunity to get somewhere. Sometimes the hangup is wrongly believing that they'd only eat salad for the rest of their life, and just learning that they can still eat pizza and ice cream can start to soften their resitance.
Wow, Cindy, that’s a really interesting take. Thanks for taking the time to explain this. Would love to apply this approach myself.
Just wondering what specifically you would say to a person arguing "My going vegan won't make a difference." What would be your response to ‘get to the honest core of their resistance to veganism and press on what those personal hangups are’ - without being too harsh/confrontational? If you can think of a good line to use, that would be super helpful.
Well written, well layed out, an excellent job in calling out Alex's fallacious reasoning, and seemed like you made all sound arguments.
I was recalling that there was a convenience and dietary related arguments as well that Alex gave as reasons (excuses). I thought I had some notes on why Alex O'Connor stopped being vegan but I couldn't find them so instead I asked Perplexity AI
Yes, Alex has also cited personal health issues as to why he won't eat a plant-based diet. However, from what I've found online, his health issues pre-dated his vegan diet he apparently didn't seek nutritional support with these issues.
Great article! Thank you 🙏
One person can make all the difference 🙏💚🫂🐥
Thank you, Nathan ❤️
I totally agree with your thoughts on this! Alex is misguided.
He really is — it’s so obvious that it’s honestly astonishing he doesn’t see it himself…
It's so sad to me. Alex is the person who convinced me of veganism. I occasionally still rewatch his videos about it, especially "a meat eater's case for veganism" and the speech in tel Aviv. It's bewildering how someone making such forceful eloquent arguments for veganism can abandon it only a couple years later.
I absolutely feel you. Human psychology works in strange ways — cognitive dissonance, social pressures, confirmation bias — they can all play a role, even for people who once seemed deeply committed. Sadly, a lot of ex-vegans start making arguments that fall far below the intellectual and ethical standards they previously championed.
As disheartening as it is, I think it also serves as a reminder: the movement needs all of us. It’s up to those who still see the importance and urgency of this cause to keep speaking up, keep sharing, and keep raising awareness. That’s how change continues. 💚
This is a very strong laying out of all the logical fallacies happening in nonvegan appeals to futility. There are indeed many valid counterpoints to the futility argument, and it's important to educate people on them. And I really appreciate you approaching it through the lens of CosmicSkeptic's unfortunate change of tune.
I'm experimenting with a slightly different read on this argument in my outreach conversations. When someone presents an appeal to futility, what's glaringly apparent is the unspoken subtext of the statement.
What they say: "My going vegan won't make a difference."
What they mean: "...so there's no reason for me to do this thing that I already don't want to do."
Appeals to futility are an indirect but unmistakable admission that the person finds the prospect of becoming vegan unappealing - too unappealing to do without having some tangible personal benefit (in this case, visibly improving society, which is inherently dishonest since we don't hold other aspects of our morality to this standard, but I digress).
So getting hit with this argument presents an opportunity to really get to the honest core of an individual's resistance to veganism and press on what those personal hangups are that make the idea of becoming vegan unappealing to them. This is how I usually respond, and if they engage in that line of conversation, then you really have the opportunity to get somewhere. Sometimes the hangup is wrongly believing that they'd only eat salad for the rest of their life, and just learning that they can still eat pizza and ice cream can start to soften their resitance.
Wow, Cindy, that’s a really interesting take. Thanks for taking the time to explain this. Would love to apply this approach myself.
Just wondering what specifically you would say to a person arguing "My going vegan won't make a difference." What would be your response to ‘get to the honest core of their resistance to veganism and press on what those personal hangups are’ - without being too harsh/confrontational? If you can think of a good line to use, that would be super helpful.
Well written, well layed out, an excellent job in calling out Alex's fallacious reasoning, and seemed like you made all sound arguments.
I was recalling that there was a convenience and dietary related arguments as well that Alex gave as reasons (excuses). I thought I had some notes on why Alex O'Connor stopped being vegan but I couldn't find them so instead I asked Perplexity AI
https://www.perplexity.ai/search/what-are-the-reasons-excuses-t-I0o.tCvJQU.IgEXliGiCBg
Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
Yes, Alex has also cited personal health issues as to why he won't eat a plant-based diet. However, from what I've found online, his health issues pre-dated his vegan diet he apparently didn't seek nutritional support with these issues.
Experts are clear that animal products are not required for health - at no stage of the human life cycle: https://veganhorizon.substack.com/p/nutritional-adequacy-of-a-vegan-diet
Unfortunately, I can't open your Perplexity link. It just says "Something went wrong".
Yes, I heard that Alex claims to have had his IBS before switching to a vegan diet.
About the link. I also can not view the content. Maybe it is a temporary problem. I will check later.
Super article Pala, as usual. 💖
Thank you so much, Chloé :) Really appreciate your encouragement 🙏💝
Brilliant!
Thanks, Paul. Glad you like it!